Helen Mcckleburgh says that Frederick and Edward were twins. Frederick was strong and when he was about 20 years old he went rowing on the Parana River duing a storm, and was drowned. This was in the Rosario City area.

Helen Mckleburgh says that Edward and Frederick were twins and that Edward was born very weak, and born without an anus. He was saved by his father operating on him '' on and on'' until he was alright. He also had probressive ossification of the backbone. Helen:" I remember him, he was very fair and quite small for a man- every so many years he would start walking all stiff and he would have yet another operation- he never complained and he was always nece and good to everybody. He married another Dora ...and his children are Nicky and Lillian who are about 35-40.

Helen Mckleburgh says this Dors died about age 19 of typhoid fever and that Helen never met her.